rayge
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Post by rayge on Dec 6, 2021 13:08:50 GMT
I’m middle. Son of a small failed shopkeeper, but had the opportunity to get educated, got educated, now I’m a well-paid professional. Anybody with a professional qualification like yours woud be seen as upper-middle by the bean-counters |
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Post by cousinlou on Dec 6, 2021 14:06:14 GMT
Born and raised lower working class.
These days, at first sight people would probably call me upper middle class or even posh.
I feel at home in both groups, (having a lot and having very little are remarkably similar) it's the middle groups I have more problems to get on board with.
Besides that, I hardly ever think along these terms.
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Post by cousinlou on Dec 6, 2021 14:08:28 GMT
Working class doesn't necessarily mean poor, there have always been working jobs where decent pay was possible. Coal miners were often relatively well off, with decent housing. There's always been plenty of money possible in trades work. Class is more about the division of labour & position in the overall economy. Yes, for the full 50 years they managed to stay alive. |
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Post by blue on Dec 6, 2021 14:23:24 GMT
"lower middle is drones like clerks or typists or telesales operatives" i.e. the stuff that's been rolled out as minimum wage service sector work to cover the post-industrial workforce. You could forgive people from traditional working class households for not thinking they've become socially mobile in a call centre. |
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Post by DarknessFish on Dec 6, 2021 14:26:55 GMT
There is a reverse-snobbery thing with regards to being working-class, isn’t there. It’s a bit cooler than being ‘other than w-c’. Perhaps in the arts, but I wouldn't say so in real life. I've never known anyone say speak with envy about an apprentice plumber, or talk romantically about the owd fella sat in the same seat of a dingy pub for the last 40 years. |
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Post by blue on Dec 6, 2021 14:52:36 GMT
Working class doesn't necessarily mean poor, there have always been working jobs where decent pay was possible. Coal miners were often relatively well off, with decent housing. There's always been plenty of money possible in trades work. Class is more about the division of labour & position in the overall economy. Yes, for the full 50 years they managed to stay alive. Well, quite. My mother grew up in a County Durham farming village and had a visceral fear of the mines. Even the one at Beamish museum. |
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Post by sloopjohnc on Dec 6, 2021 16:10:20 GMT
I've found during my years on music forums populated by UK folks, this comes up way more than it would with Americans.
No matter the status and upbringing, lots of American kids are told if they do well in school, they can become President. The facts prove this out too if you look at the social sphere lots of Presidents come from. Sure, there are the Roosevelts and Kennedys but lots of American Presidents come from pretty humble beginnings. Clinton and Obama, both from one parent households.
My parents and very few of my parents' friends went to more than a year or two of community college. Lots of dads in my neighborhood were SF cops, firefighters, garbage collectors or owners at small businesses or blue collar at big businesses. The more economically advantaged were kids of successful salesmen, and you didn't need degree for that. I had one friend's dad who was neurosurgeon, but he was small town Minnesota kid so very unpretentious guy.
But all of us were encouraged to rise above our parents' status. California had exceptional education system from elementary school to college. I paid for my own college working summer jobs at YMCA day camps and pool supply store. Can't do that anymore.
As my dad said, "I don't want you to train your bosses like I did." Even my brother, who's not academic at all, got a degree at a state school after a fitful start.
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Post by fonz on Dec 6, 2021 16:19:50 GMT
I’m middle. Son of a small failed shopkeeper, but had the opportunity to get educated, got educated, now I’m a well-paid professional. Anybody with a professional qualification like yours woud be seen as upper-middle by the bean-counters Yeah, i voted for high-middle, or what I’d imagine to be upper middle-class in more common parlance. |
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Post by sloopjohnc on Dec 6, 2021 16:20:09 GMT
Also, the GI bill post WWII and Korea, helped build up the middle class. My grandfather on my mom's side was an itinerant tailor who had worked in the merchant marines. My mom's mom was baker for United Airlines So. San Francisco hub. Both Swedish immigrants who hung out with other Scandinavian immigrants. My mom's family was so poor that she and her sister had to live with a nearby aunt and uncle because my grandparents couldn't afford to feed their daughters.
My dad's dad was lawyer whose parents had been missionaries on Maui. My grandmother on dad's side was legal secretary. They split up when my dad was really young and was raised mostly by his mom. My dad would tell me stories about having to put the family car up on blocks because they couldn't afford gas and a local storekeeper taking great joy in watching my dad have to fish out corned beef from a barrel full of brine at local market. My dad said he did it to embarrass the poor families.
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Post by fonz on Dec 6, 2021 16:23:25 GMT
There is a reverse-snobbery thing with regards to being working-class, isn’t there. It’s a bit cooler than being ‘other than w-c’. Perhaps in the arts, but I wouldn't say so in real life. I've never known anyone say speak with envy about an apprentice plumber, or talk romantically about the owd fella sat in the same seat of a dingy pub for the last 40 years. Envy, maybe not, but definitely a sense of lacking some sort of credibility. Tim Westwood and Strummer were extreme examples, but I’ve known plenty of people over the years who were pretty quiet about their privileged upbringing, whilst trying to portray themselves as ‘street’. |
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god
disambiguating goat herder
Posts: 5,532
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Post by ~ / % ? * on Dec 6, 2021 16:37:48 GMT
I am pretty sure Snee was to the manor born, usually his absences are because he traveling amongst his properties throughout the world.
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Post by fonz on Dec 6, 2021 16:59:43 GMT
I am pretty sure Snee was to the manor born, usually his absences are because he traveling amongst his properties throughout the world. It’s a wonderful image. Smoking a pipe, distinguished accent etc |
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Post by oh oooh on Dec 6, 2021 17:01:05 GMT
Perhaps in the arts, but I wouldn't say so in real life. I've never known anyone say speak with envy about an apprentice plumber, or talk romantically about the owd fella sat in the same seat of a dingy pub for the last 40 years. Envy, maybe not, but definitely a sense of lacking some sort of credibility. Tim Westwood and Strummer were extreme examples, but I’ve known plenty of people over the years who were pretty quiet about their privileged upbringing, whilst trying to portray themselves as ‘street’. About half the students I met... |
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Post by sloopjohnc on Dec 6, 2021 23:09:24 GMT
I am pretty sure Snee was to the manor born, usually his absences are because he traveling amongst his properties throughout the world. Even a Lear jet and hovercraft have their limitations. |
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~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
Posts: 5,532
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Post by ~ / % ? * on Dec 6, 2021 23:41:14 GMT
I am pretty sure Snee was to the manor born, usually his absences are because he traveling amongst his properties throughout the world. Even a Lear jet and hovercraft have their limitations. Indeed, synchronizing with the yacht is not as easy as one would think. |
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