|
Post by tory on Dec 5, 2021 18:13:10 GMT
Define successful democracy.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2021 18:13:48 GMT
On top of that, 'middle class' is used quite often as a pejorative in the UK, to describe things that are insubstantial, effeminate, or pretentious. Therefore people are reluctant sometimes to label themselves this way. And conversely, there's something STRONG and UNAFRAID about 'working class', so people will happily define themselves with that one. Very true. I never realised how much we looked down on our middle class until the 2016 election with Trump and they were fawning over the middle class as well as lumping them in with the working class!!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2021 18:14:39 GMT
Define successful democracy. Mandatory vaccines. Gender neutral bathrooms. No dissidents to the above.
|
|
|
Post by blue on Dec 5, 2021 18:31:01 GMT
Working class doesn't necessarily mean poor, there have always been working jobs where decent pay was possible. Coal miners were often relatively well off, with decent housing. There's always been plenty of money possible in trades work. Class is more about the division of labour & position in the overall economy.
|
|
~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
Posts: 5,532
|
Post by ~ / % ? * on Dec 5, 2021 18:52:16 GMT
I think the UK definition of class is unique because of there is a history of Kings, Lords, etc., so everyone is defined against that what they have and what they do not. Whereas class in the US, Canada, etc., is more about economics, skills and education and much more blurry/fluid.
|
|
~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
Posts: 5,532
|
Post by ~ / % ? * on Dec 5, 2021 18:53:23 GMT
Define successful democracy. Mandatory vaccines. Gender neutral bathrooms. No dissidents to the above. Or exactly because dissension is allowed (regardless if we agree).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2021 18:56:52 GMT
Mandatory vaccines. Gender neutral bathrooms. No dissidents to the above. Or exactly because dissension is allowed (regardless if we agree). Becoming increasingly obvious we won't be allowed to politely disagree..... But I agree in an ideal world we should be able to "discuss" these issues.... Apologies for digressing from original thread.
|
|
|
Post by tory on Dec 5, 2021 19:00:19 GMT
The middle class decisively voted for Hitler in 1933 with an 89% turnout.
So, a middle class is not indicative of a successful democracy.
I'd say that the middle class listening to the classes below them is indicative of one.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2021 19:09:27 GMT
The middle class decisively voted for Hitler in 1933 with an 89% turnout. So, a middle class is not indicative of a successful democracy. I'd say that the middle class listening to the classes below them is indicative of one. Extremely debatable.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2021 19:12:37 GMT
The middle class decisively voted for Hitler in 1933 with an 89% turnout. So, a middle class is not indicative of a successful democracy. I'd say that the middle class listening to the classes below them is indicative of one. The middle classes also listen to ColdPlay..... If you know you know.... #peepshow
|
|
|
Post by clive gash on Dec 5, 2021 19:19:28 GMT
I am CATALOG with Nick Cave, therefore I am MIDDLE.
|
|
~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
Posts: 5,532
|
Post by ~ / % ? * on Dec 5, 2021 19:20:45 GMT
Or exactly because dissension is allowed (regardless if we agree). Becoming increasingly obvious we won't be allowed to politely disagree..... But I agree in an ideal world we should be able to "discuss" these issues.... Apologies for digressing from original thread. Civility is a whole other issue. As populations grow, it probably will become something that must be taught rather than thinking it is innate.
|
|
~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
Posts: 5,532
|
Post by ~ / % ? * on Dec 5, 2021 19:23:27 GMT
The middle class decisively voted for Hitler in 1933 with an 89% turnout. So, a middle class is not indicative of a successful democracy. I'd say that the middle class listening to the classes below them is indicative of one. No, there is no comparison between the rarified middle classes pre WWII and the more large scale rise post WWII.
|
|
|
Post by souphound on Dec 5, 2021 20:30:51 GMT
/ % ? * said: "...one can't have a successful democracy without a middle class" Toby said: / % ? * said: "...a middle class is not indicative of a successful democracy" Assuming I'm interpreting both statements correctly, I'd have to say that both hold some truth. But: - You can have a successful democracy if there is an operational middle class within it
- You cannot have a successful democracy without an operational middle class within it
- You undoubtedly have an operational middle class within a successful democracy
- You can have an operational middle class without having a successful democracy
Therefore, having a middle class is necessary for, but does not guarantee having a successful democracy. Not having a middle class pretty much guarantees not having a successful democracy. Right? Carry on.
|
|
|
Post by fonz on Dec 6, 2021 13:02:36 GMT
I’m middle. Son of a small failed shopkeeper, but had the opportunity to get educated, got educated, now I’m a well-paid professional.
There is a reverse-snobbery thing with regards to being working-class, isn’t there. It’s a bit cooler than being ‘other than w-c’.
But, you are what you are.
|
|